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Posts: 4631
Sep 27 12 9:04 AM
Pirate
El Sinistral wrote: Actually, I think meat eating is acceptable but am trying to be open-minded to the idea that it may not be. I think vegetarianism based on morality has some compelling arguments.
Posts: 9487
Sep 27 12 6:04 PM
Ataco tu abominable cara
Sep 28 12 8:07 AM
El Sinistral wrote:There's no reason it needs to be black and white within adult humanity, either. If you need to eat meat to survive, you clearly have more leeway for eating meat than someone for whom vegetarian options are available.
Sep 28 12 7:41 PM
Quontir wrote:By holding humans to a higher moral standard than other animals aren't we already saying "Humanity is special"? Once you make that divide and say "we're better than other animals" how do you track back towards it's not okay to eat creatures that we are better than?
I think that makes sense the poorest people in our society and areas where herding just makes more sense. But, what do we do about our dogs and cats? Are we now saying that because dogs and cats need to eat meat to survive they have more moral justification to do so than their human owner? (and yes I just imagined eating from the "Fancy Feast" can...ewww...)
Posts: 14110
Sep 28 12 7:48 PM
Panhypersebastokrator
El Sinistral wrote:Quontir wrote:By holding humans to a higher moral standard than other animals aren't we already saying "Humanity is special"? Once you make that divide and say "we're better than other animals" how do you track back towards it's not okay to eat creatures that we are better than?No more than other animal that developed the same or similar cognitive ability. I think the point is, it's not the species classification that matters, it's the skills and talents an individual living organism has, or their potential to develop those skills and talents after having developed them partially.
Sep 28 12 8:51 PM
Samnell wrote:El Sinistral wrote:Quontir wrote:By holding humans to a higher moral standard than other animals aren't we already saying "Humanity is special"? Once you make that divide and say "we're better than other animals" how do you track back towards it's not okay to eat creatures that we are better than?No more than other animal that developed the same or similar cognitive ability. I think the point is, it's not the species classification that matters, it's the skills and talents an individual living organism has, or their potential to develop those skills and talents after having developed them partially.This sounds a lot like my own position for a guy who has moral qualms about eating meat.
Sep 28 12 8:59 PM
El Sinistral wrote:Samnell wrote:This sounds a lot like my own position for a guy who has moral qualms about eating meat.Well, the difference is that I think it's fair to consider some of the more limited skills and talents of other animals powerful enough to consider their interests and suffering worthwhile. After all, as we discussed, many animals are more skilled and talented than newborn human infants.
Samnell wrote:This sounds a lot like my own position for a guy who has moral qualms about eating meat.
Sep 28 12 9:13 PM
Sep 28 12 9:14 PM
El Sinistral wrote:Sure, I'm just willing to see more value in simpler forms of cognition. Dogs. Cats. Cows. Etc. Pretty much mammals and birds I can generally see a decent case for. Cephalopods, perhaps, as well. Our scales are different.
Sep 28 12 9:19 PM
Sep 30 12 12:21 AM
El Sinistral wrote:No more than other animal that developed the same or similar cognitive ability.
El Sinisral wrote:I think so. But you could possibly make a case for fake meat.
Sep 30 12 1:35 AM
Sep 30 12 11:09 AM
Quontir wrote:El Sinistral wrote:No more than other animal that developed the same or similar cognitive ability. Okay so when animals with those same or similar cognitive abilities eat other animals do we stop them?
I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that as humans we have some moral obligation not to eat meat, but at the same time we have no moral obligation to stop owning cats and dogs that must eat meat to live?
Oct 2 12 12:01 AM
El Sinistral wrote:The idea of owning cats and dogs is really kind of malleable if you think about it. You're responsible for their welfare in a way you aren't for a couch or a desk. But yes, animals that don't recognize that moral obligation are limited. This isn't an acknowledgment that cognitive ability creates a kind of power and that power should be handled responsibily. We just happen to have a near-monopoly on cognitive ability right now. But not completely. Even Koko the gorilla can take care of kittens.
Oct 2 12 1:22 AM
Quontir wrote:P.S. I would totally eat lab grown meat
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